Tag Archives: Church

Episode 5 – Jesus(ish)



In this episode, the (possibly) Greatest Theologians of the 21st Century attempt to take on Jesus. I say attempt as they stray way off course and talk more about the churches reaction to Jesus and how we just mess it up so much, so often. They do manage to cover what exactly we mean when we say ‘Son of God’ so there’s that… They also look at the problems with church being insular; a social club, rather than an outreach and the problem that causes when wishing to question dogma or doctrine. Not that Dangerous or Sir Tom have any issue doing so as you will hear…


Jesus (Letter 17)



SMASH!

I agree with you, dear fellow, in the broad outline of what you’re saying. I don’t, however, agree with the linking of Jesus to the appearances you mention in the OT. If the Bible says God sent an angel to shut the lion’s mouths then it was a lion. I also think there is a strong presence for a few archangels doing a lot of work through the OT and into the NT up until Jesus’ birth and I don’t feel the need to detract from that. Jacob had to have wrestled with God because a/ he says he did and b/ his name would make no sense if he hadn’t.

Still you paint a great picture of Jesus and I totally agree with everything you say about how He was hidden yet referenced throughout; though I am currently in a stage where I believe Jesus was hidden because He did not exist apart from God at this time.

My thing, as I’ve said, is that Jesus was the literal word of God; John states that clearly and The Apocalypse 19 v13 – 16 also make that clear, I feel. And actually thinking about it now I wonder if we can never, not even on the New Earth truly see and understand who and what God is and that Jesus takes on a mantle of being the tactile ruler of Eternity for that reason. Hmm. That is deep and needs more thought.

More to the point though, is that, though all you say is true, it does not actually deal with the moniker of ‘Son of God’. It tells us brilliantly who He is and how He is addressed through the OT, but it does not deal with the idea of whether Jesus is a son or not. And this was what I wanted to deal with.

Again I feel that the Daniel verses put a spanner in the works for what you said before as again they talk about, let’s face it, Jesus as being “given authority, glory and sovereign power”, not had it already because He was God. When it comes to Jesus we seem to happily see-saw between theologies on Him. This is Mannish Boy Theology because it really questions our accepted wisdom of who Jesus is, or more accurately questions whether we have a true doctrine of Him.

Still I think you have nailed it in many ways with your window analogy. I guess that links to what I said above about whether He is a tactile ruler of Heaven, i.e. God in a form we can mentally understand. I also totes agree that we need to talk Revelation Jesus, though we should call the book The Apocalypse as it sounds waaaaay cooler. Apocalypse Jesus should be our band name!

I would love to hear your further thoughts on this, but if we run out of time before recording I think we can agree with this. Jesus was somehow God and that through His death and resurrection He somehow bridged the gap between us and God. We won’t talk about how that might have happened as that will be another podcast, one that also includes a lot of doctrine that I find iffy.

What a surprise!

Peace and SMASHY

‘Dangerous’

 


Jesus (Letter 14)



My Dear Dangerous

SMASH

I agree with your point that ‘Son of God,’ is only one of many titles used by and given to Jesus in the Scriptures. But I still think it deserves its place in the picture and I would myself nudge it forward as of particular importance. There are a few reasons for this. First, it shapes Peter’s confession of Jesus in the Gospels (“Who do you say I am?” – “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God”). This episode was crucial and Jesus affirms Peter in his conviction. Second, the ‘Father-Son’ image is used by Jesus throughout his parables to explain his own mission and calling. The main example I have in mind is the Parable of the Tenants, where the landowner keeps sending his servants to the tenants to collect the harvest and they keep killing them. Then he sends his son thinking that the tenants will give him greater respect but they kill him too. Now I know that a.) this is a parable, not a theological grid and b.) the context is Israel’s rejection of God, but in the parable, Jesus definitely sets himself apart from the prophets who have come before him by framing himself as the ‘son’ of the landowner. This to me is a strong hint that Jesus has a way more intimate and prominent relationship with God than all the other seers/prophets/teachers who have been sent. Third, God ‘giving us’ his Son provides the context for many of the Apostle Paul’s most inspiring descriptions of God’s generous love. For example: ‘He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?’ In other words, there was a sacrificial element to God’s mission to save us and it has something to do with giving up his Son, his most precious possession.

OK, let me take a step back here. Having defended the ‘Son of God’ moniker, I want to say two things in qualification. First, as you rightly point out, ‘God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.’ So it might actually be more helpful, as you put it, to ‘say that He Himself came to Earth and took our place.’ This truth certainly helps clarify all the messy models of atonement we have inherited where you have ‘an angry God upstairs sending his poor innocent son to do his dirty work for him.’ Second, I’m reminded that we are meant to be approaching this through the perspective of someone completely new to Christianity, so let me have another punt below.

Who is Jesus? Jesus is the perfect embodiment of the God who made us, calls us and loves us. We spoke before about how God’s ways are ‘high above’ our own. Jesus makes him knowable. The character of Jesus gives us an insight into God’s character (and we should never neglect the Risen Jesus who teaches throughout the first three chapters of Revelation: he is just as awesome, mighty and scary as he is gracious, loving and tender). The work of Jesus gives us an insight into God’s love for us (because he sacrificed himself for us). And the teaching of Jesus gives us a moral framework for what pleases God. So, leaving aside all established theological titles, Jesus is a window into God.

SMASH, old chap!

Sir Tom


Episode 4 – God



In this episode, “A Despicable Human Being”, ‘Dangerous’ and Sir Tom talk about God and who He is. Or at least they try to, but they veer off into cricket and The Kinks back catalogue a fair bit. Still they make some good points about what, if anything we can understand about the Big Man and the proof that He really does exist…

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Jesus (Letter 13)



Sir Tom,

SMASHY, Old Boy,

Soooo, tough subject. I think we need to agree on what our theological basis for Jesus is. A basis that we can pin our discussion on (as I’m well aware we will meander around the topic, if not get off it completely!). But here’s the twist, it can’t be the Son of God.

Whaaaaat?

Here’s my issue with the whole Son of God thing. He’s not, we know He’s not, it’s just a moniker. That being said we hear (an awful lot) in church people talk about God’s sacrifice in sending His only son to die. Like if I sent my daughter to die. But it’s not like that is it? It’s closer to say that He Himself came to Earth and took our place.

It’s one of those examples where we as Christians take an idea that we all know is not theologically sound and bump it up to prime of place. It’s like when people say ‘Jesus defeated death’. What does that even mean? In order to believe or even understand that phrase requires a lot of theology that most church goers don’t have. But they still bandy it about.

We don’t theologically believe Jesus to be God’s son, but in our working, day to day theology, we basically do. And in fact, I think we do Jesus a disservice by focusing on that particular title (he uses Son of Man just as much, if not more) as we tend then to focus less on the other things He may be.

So that is the question. Who do you think Jesus is?

Peace

‘Dangerous’


Episode 3 – What is the Bible?



In this episode ‘Dangerous’ and Sir Tom explicitly state they won’t talk about Biblical inerrancy and then talk about it a lot.

As they do however, they cover many topics such as ‘what is the Bible?’; ‘How should we use it?’; ‘What is the core message of the Bible?’ and ‘Did the Apostle Paul get invited to parties?’

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Ep.16 – Christmas ‘special’



If you thought Christmas was all peace and fairy lights, think again.

In this episode we host a sermon that Dangerous preached. It’s basically ‘Stuff We Don’t Talk about in Church’ – Christmas Edition covering the exciting history of the Magi; the interesting lack of evidence for the Virgin Birth;  ditto the lack of Nativity coverage and ultimately viewing Christmas through the lens of The Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord.


Ep.15 – The Bible (part 2)



In this episode BT and Dangerous discuss how they use the Bible, what it means to them and, more importantly how the Holy Spirit uses it. With that in mind they ponder when, if and how we open up the Bible to new converts. Are there black and white answers in the Good Book or is it a tool of the Holy Spirit that means different things to different people?


Ep.14 The Bible (part 1)



In this episode, Cirque du Sola Scriptura, the gents look at whether the Bible is reliable. Paul tells Timothy that all scripture is ‘God-breathed’ and that’s often used to prove Biblical inerrancy (ack of errors), but can we really use the Bible to argue the Bible’s reliability? Can we show Biblical reliability in other ways? Even without inerrancy? And what can the late, great cricketer Donald Bradman teach us (And can we teach all Bible studies through analogies with his life?)

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Produced by Debs McBeany


Episode 2 – The Greatest Novel Never Written



This episode is a re-recording of a light-hearted talk Dangerous gave. It’s about why the Bible can’t be made up and the reason it’s here is that it deals with Biblical dating. We’re talking about what’s and wherefores of the Bible in this month’s episode so it seemed a good idea to get the facts about Biblical dating out the way so we don’t have to slog through them in the episode. We hope you enjoy it and hopefully it helps in your quest.

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